The PERColator Podcast
The PERColator Podcast
Episode 29: PERColator Book Club featuring Star Wars, Chief Leschi and Addie Fletcher-Booth
What can negotiators learn from the stories of Star Wars, Chief Leschi, and groundbreaking Washington labor leader Addie Fletcher Booth? In this book club episode, Chris, Emily and Matt share interesting negotiations and labor relations books and resources.
References:
NW LERA Conference Registration
Dr. Quintard Taylor Jr.’s Website
Cobbins-Modica, Q. (2023, February 22). Addie Fletcher Booth (1902-1996)
Blindspot: Hidden Biases of Good People
Star Wars and Conflict Resolution
How do the stories of Star Wars, Chief Leschi, and groundbreaking Washington labor leader Addie Fletcher-Booth come together? In a book club discussion, of course. On this episode of the PERColator podcast, Chris, Emily and Matt share interesting negotiations and labor relations books and resources that they've recently read. Have you read something lately that the labor relations community might be interested in? Let us know. Email us at negotiation@perc.wa.gov. Enjoy the episode.
Emily Martin:Hey, Matt. Hey, Chris, how you doing today?
Chris Casillas:Doing great. How are you, Emily?
Matt Greer:I'm good. How about you Matt? I'm doing good, too. Good to see you both.
Emily Martin:Well, we have a date on the calendar as let's record a podcast about what we've been reading lately. So we each have been reading some books maybe. And I thought we'd share what we're reading about and why we thought it was interesting, especially in the context of the negotiation project. So Matt, how about you? Why don't you start us off?
Matt Greer:All right, I knew you're gonna call me first. And I guess I have to start off with a confession because I was that book club member who did not do the reading for the book club session. So
Chris Casillas:Oh, no.
Matt Greer:But I do have some interesting things to share. So my mind has been on the Northwest LERA Conference world for a while, I'm on the planning committee for that. And I want to put in a plug for that, as well as some of the speakers and some resources that are out there for that speaker. And so Dr. Quintard Taylor is going to be doing the plenary speech on the afternoon of the first day of the conference on Thursday. It's going to be on,"Fighting for Work - Black Workers and the Struggle for Economic Opportunity in the Pacific Northwest." So I'm really looking forward to that conversation. Professor Taylor was at the University of Washington history department for a long time. I think he recently retired from that role. I think he's an emeritus, but he's coming in, and going to do a great talk on that. So he has a lot of really good resources online. He has a website, we'll put those links into the show notes for his website. But He also founded a website called Blackpast.org, BLACKPAST.org. and there is a ton of really good resources on there. It's about black history, in the northwest, but also more generally. In fact, there's timelines really interesting timelines for various geographic locations. So I went in and did a little search for Washington history and tried to see if there was any kind of labor connections there that might be interesting to share. And I came across a little article on that website regarding a lady named Addy Fletcher booth. And there was a pretty brief article there, written by Quin'nita F. Cobbins-Modica. Hopefully I got that right. She wrote about this little this lady who, back in the 1940s, she actually moved to Seattle in 1943, with her husband, and she worked for Boeing for a brief period of time. But then she was a teacher historically, but because there were no opportunities for teachers in the northwest. The Seattle Public Schools had a policy in the early 1940s, where they would not hire African Americans as teachers, and so she ended up being a domestic servant, basically. And but she also joined the ladies auxilary, for the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters, which was a union that was a black-led union that her husband was part of. And in that role, she helped organize ladies, women workers on the railroad, the dining car attendants, but she also had a really integral role in passing and supporting the, what was called the Fair Employment Practice legislation back in the 40s. So in 1949, I believe is when that law was passed, which prohibited employment discrimination or bias, regardless of race, creed, religion, national origin. So she was really an integral in that in the back of the 1940s. And she moved to Seattle in 1943. That law was passed in 1949. So she had a pretty big impact fairly quickly and was a leader in that organization. So I really enjoyed just reading about her and was just the tip of the iceberg, in terms of the stuff that was on that website. So I want to put a plug out there for that website and all that information. So it's one of those places where the history is not well taught probably in most areas and kind of helps fill in some of the gaps that I had. It also made me really excited to hear from Dr. Taylor at Northwest LERA. And another thing is if you've not signed up for Northwest LERA, do so as soon as you can, the conference is in April 20 and 21st. So I'll put a link to the registration website in the show notes as well. But that's definitely one of the highlights for me. And I just wanted to put that out there. Thanks for your forgiveness for not reading a book, but I thought that was really interesting and a great resource for our listeners. So I want to throw it out there. What have you been reading Emily?
Emily Martin:Well, I actually read one and a half books.
Matt Greer:Show off.
Emily Martin:The book I was going to read, and I wanted to
read is called Blindspot:Hidden Biases of Good People. And it is by Mahzarin R. Banaji and Anthony G. Greenwald. And they're, it's a book that came out about 10 years ago. And it's about the implicit bias test. And if you haven't done it before, I really recommend trying out those implicit bias tests that are available they're for free, they're on the internet. And they help us understand what might be some of our internal biases against certain types of people, and might not be something that we are aware of. But there is a connection between our internal biases and people's actions. So it I think is an important it's been an important conversation in the last 10 years, to help us understand how we treat different types of people, even if we think we treat everybody the same time we think we treat everybody great there. The truth is that, that our internal biases can really influence what we what we do and how we act. And there actually is a connection between these authors and UW. And that's why I heard about this book. I was at a training it was mentioning an implicit bias test, mentioned UW, I thought I would read it, that's the path of the book, because it was, it's a good book. But I just, I've done the test a few times. And this book is a really good way to introduce the concept of the test. So it was harder to get excited about it. I think 10 years ago, I would have been a little more excited about reading it for the first time. So that's my confession. And it turned into a feeling like a school assignment. And I'm not so great at finishing books when they feel like a school assignment. The other book that I read was Murray Morgan's Puget Sound. And this connects just like Matt, you're talking about LERA. LERA is going to be in Tacoma. And I've been wanting to learn a little more about Tacoma before the conference. So this is a narrative of early Tacoma and the southern sound. And it was, the beginning of the book was a little more about the southern sound than I was expecting. I was thinking it'd be more focused on Tacoma itself. But it was started with like the British and fur traders. And then here comes the Americans. And it got to the point where it started talking about Isaac Stevens, who was the appointed territorial governor of Washington. And his assignment was to get the people living here, the the tribes to give up their rights to land. And he, he's the one who convened the meeting at Madison creek where there was a treaty signed. And if you think of that event, as a negotiation, it's a pretty horrible and horrific negotiation. And the way that that was conducted where they would just like read legalese, until people signed and was just pretty awful. But there's a story, where there was, there was not just a story, there was a person there that was, was appointed, just to be the representative of the Nisqually of the Puyallup people. And it was Leschi, Chief Leschi. And the story of Stevens and Leschi, I think I had heard of a little bit before, but I didn't really appreciate it till I read this book. And Leschi didn't sign the agreement, he thought that the land that was being offered was not very good. It was a rocky place where nothing could grow. And it wasn't a good place for people to try to live off of. And so he didn't sign it. And then in the subsequent years, there was, there was a war developed between the settlers and, and the tribes. And Stevens, Leschi was, was involved in sort of the tribe sense, but it's unclear how connected he was with any of the violence. And it does seem like what the depiction of the history and the story is, he's actually trying to find a way to negotiate an end to the war. And Stevens is awful. He's like, in, he just makes more choices the whole time. And you're, you're reading this and you realize it's not just like he's a type person of his time, because there's also the conversation of where the army was in the army was saying this is not a good way to, to, to have this conflict. You're doing things that will escalate things and you're making poor choices. And in the end, there were a was a trial. Leschi was put on trial for murder. And there's pretty clearly no question that that was not a good or just or fair trial, and he was executed. And, and just the story of Leschi was really powerful. And as I was reading this book, I got to the point where I was like, I can't, like, is this gonna keep getting worse? And it's not I mean, yes, it kept getting worse. And the only good part of the story was at the end, when what happened to Stevens is he went off to fight in the Civil War and he died. And by the time he died, I was just glad he was he was gone, because because of the story of Leschi and Stevens, which I wasn't aware of, and thinking about. There's other negotiations that are mentioned there, like businessman fighting over money and things like that really, really weren't that interesting. But when you think about negotiations, and you think about the ethics of negotiations and power imbalances, and how we, and how historically negotiations have been used to force people into some really awful and unjust situations, the story that's been stuck with me for the last few weeks, there's a story of Leschi and Stevens. So that's, that's what I've been reading and how it connects to negotiations. How about you, Chris, what have you been up to?
Chris Casillas:Yeah, well, thanks for thanks for introducing that story, Emily, and look forward to hearing about more labor history at the upcoming lira conference. And speaking of lira while this is not the main book I want to talk about I have been reading a lot getting ready for LERA, we got a talk on what's called the Negotiation Paradox. And I've been reading some really great books and articles related to that, including this book called Both/And Thinking by Wendy Smith, and Marianne Lewis. And, of course, Bernard Mayer's book, The Conflict Paradox, kind of getting ready for this talk. So more on those books to come at LERA. But what I wanted to talk about today was a book that came out late last year. For all of those fans of a galaxy far, far away. There is a new book out called Star Wars and Conflict Resolution that was edited by two professors Noam Ebner and Jen Reynolds, Noam is a professor at Creighton University and Jen Reynolds is here in the PNW down at University of Oregon Law School, just two really important, significant voices in the kind of academic dispute resolution space that put together this book. Again, the title is Star Wars and Conflict Resolution. So just a little bit about the book that for those that might be interested, and kind of what I liked, and maybe what I didn't like as much about about the book. So it's, it's basically 18 essays by different authors. And that kind of the unifying theme of all the essays, as the title suggests, I guess, is conflict and, but also Star Wars and thinking about using the movie franchise as a vehicle for understanding different facets of conflict. And so half the book is kind of divided into topics more squarely centered on conflict related issues. And then the second half of the book is on kind of conflict resolution mechanisms. So thinking about conflict, and then how to how to manage conflict, how to deal with conflict. So that's how the books kind of organized, what I, what I really did enjoy about it was the fact that it really covered a wide range of topics in the negotiation kind of realm. So there's, you know, essays on identity issues, and conflict and psychological issues around conflict and emotional issues, and relational issues, and, and all of that. And so it really kind of covered the, I don't know, I'd say it's kind of a disease of thinking about conflict, but really kind of went about it in a broad way. So that was fun. And it was, of course, as I mentioned, kind of set in this pretty fun, accessible way, instead of like really digging into these topics and kind of this dry academic sense. You get them in the context of movies that many, many of us, you know, really enjoy. And so I thought that was a way to make them more accessible and more interesting, while still covering what, in the abstract, would be some some complicated concepts and make them a little bit more relatable to folks in ways that were pretty interesting. And you know, it. The other thing I really liked about it is it gave me a new appreciation both for studying negotiations and thinking about this the space but also the Star Wars movies like Hey, I am a fan but I you know, it's like as you go back and read these in the in the context of thinking about the individual situations of conflict or the group conflicts are you whatnot, there's kind of new spin on watching watching the movies itself so themselves. So there'll be fun to kind of go back and watch some of these scenes and some of these movies having gone over the book and understanding them perhaps in a different way. So that that's, that's great. The kind of the the caveats, I would say, I don't know if it's constructive criticism, or just just some hedging a little bit on my fuse of support for the book, otherwise would be one. I mean, I think you really have to be familiar with the Star Wars world to really understand the book, like, if you're not, I wouldn't, I'm definitely not a super fan, by any by any means. Although I have a new appreciation for people who really love Star Wars, because there was things in this that you know, someone who really does enjoy watching the movies and, you know, done done that stuff. It was kind of over my head in terms of the level of detail, but I think you really do have to have a understanding and familiarity with the movies for this book to really resonate with you on any level, if you don't, I don't think it's a good way to work through these concepts, because you'll just be lost in the context of the particular movies, settings and whatnot. So I think you really do need that background. I also think this is it's probably a book for like, maybe a newer negotiator, or maybe someone with some more experience, but who hasn't really studied negotiations in kind of a more academic setting. So a lot of the concepts or, you know, from my vantage point, as someone who kind of just regularly interacts with this stuff teaches this stuff, I would say, are kind of more of like an introduction to negotiation type level. For example, there's like a whole chapter on getting to yes, in the context of Star Wars. So you know, getting the yes, as you both know, is kind of like a foundational kind of text for us. And then negotiation space. So it's not new concepts. But I think it's a, for someone who's kind of studying that for the first time. I think this was a really good way or interesting way to kind of think about that book and that approach to negotiations, but in the confines of Star Wars. And the last thing I'd say is, I think there were some some of the essays that felt a little bit forced or constrained to kind of fit within the Star Wars theme. But we're a little bit too abstract in my, in my opinion. So for example, there was a whole whole essay on like, lightsaber and fighting modes of the different Jedi and Darth characters. And I was like, at first I was kind of blown away like, Wow, I like I didn't I mean, I remember some remember a lot of these battle scenes, but I had no idea like people were thinking about this on the level of like, different fighting styles. And it was like a very descriptive approach to like, here's how Darth Maul like fights versus Obi Wan Kenobi using using their lightsabers. But it was but then, you know, it was I had a hard time thinking about how you would practically kind of use that any of that like it seemed very kind of kitschy. Interesting to think of the movies that way but I don't know how practically or effective that would be for you as a negotiator in your day to day work. But overall, the fun book, definitely recommend it for people who kind of fit in that category or those set of categories that I described. And yeah, so anyway, that's what I've been up to in the book front these days.
Emily Martin:That sounds like a lot of fun. Do you have to like, how many of the movies do you need to have read to understand the book all of them?
Chris Casillas:Yeah, so there's a I'm that's a great question. I'm trying to remember off the top of my head because they have like a little explainer at the beginning. You definitely need to have seen all of the nine kind of main movies so the prequels, the three original, and then the three sequels, but I think they also included scenes from Rogue One and maybe Solo the movie, but they didn't go so far. See this is where I'm not like a total Star Wars like person like the you know, there's the Mandalorian on Disney plus and a few other these series that even I haven't like totally dug into but I think that was beyond the scope of this book. They tried to limit it to the main the main movie franchises, but definitely some some, like pieces of it that they pulled out that are just, you know, didn't even like remember from some of the movies, but some people that were really dedicated to the Star Wars world. But it was it was a fun, it was a fun book, a neat project. I really do appreciate the fact of people finding, trying to find ways of taking these kind of dents, sometimes dry kind of esoteric feeling kind of concepts and like, talking about them in something that feels a little bit more relatable to people, like, you know, there's, there's a chapter on like psychological issues and talking about, you know, attribution biases and anchoring concepts. And and, you know, I think when you study those in isolation, you know, it feels differently than when you think about them in the context of like, you know, Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker, you know, just as more exciting to talk about that way. So I do appreciate that.
Emily Martin:But, you know, it seems like, there's so many different kinds of fandoms. And everybody watches different things now, I can't imagine what a better one would be. Even if Star Wars does seem a little overwhelming and is beyond the scope of the casual viewer. There's just so many different directions people go with pop culture, it's hard to find one unifying story anymore to say this is something that everyone can relate to. So like, it's a good choice.
Chris Casillas:Yeah, yeah, definitely probably hit a fair amount of the population was Star Wars.
Emily Martin:Well, great. It sounds like we've there's some history, there's some sci-fi, we've been thinking about negotiations. And maybe we needed to do this again and have another have another book club day. What do you think?
Chris Casillas:Sounds good to me.
Matt Greer:Sounds great.
Chris Casillas:All right, good chatting with you both.
